apparently I have triggers now about food -- say stuff that hits one and I'll rant

[truelove]

Some days I kind of want to get on top of a building with a megaphone and scream from the rooftops:

Food does not have a moral value.

It has, at most, a nutritional value. Vitamins, proteins, etc. Which are not moral choices. Nutrients are what physically keep you going; they are not moral.

You aren't an immoral person for choosing to eat something sweet. Or for choosing the low-fat dressing because you can't stand the salad without something on it. Or for choosing to have the full-fat dressing because the low-fat tastes like ass. Your choices of what foods to eat? Have no bearing on your moral character. Because food does not have a moral value.

And goddamn am I sick of how this permeates our culture. I actually particularly hate being told what a good, moral girl I am for eating... guess what? The food that I actually want to eat. Because fuck you, no. I am not a good girl. I am woman who is listening to what her body is craving and that happens to be something our fucked-up culture has decided is virtuous.

Food? Does not have a moral value.

Y'think if I did shout it from the rooftops it might make a damned difference?

Comments

[damned_colonial]

Bits of me want to argue for the sake of it and make exceptions ("endangered species! fair trade!") but this is me shutting the fuck up, because YES. Here, have a repeat of the cartoon I posted just before New Year:

[truelove]

You know, I was going to say, yeah to that but I actually don't think those exceptions are cases where the food has a moral value. I think the moral question is a lot more about the obtainment of that food. I mean, I dunno, with endangered species I can see it. But most other such... it's not the food that's the problem. It's how the food is obtained and the other impacts, economic, etc., that the transport/purchase of that food has.

But, yeah. I loved that cartoon. Food! Is not the devil!

[shirou]

I was going to say something similar to damned_colonial. Some vegetarians avoid meat because they think the consumption of animals is immoral. Really they think the slaughter of animals for food is immoral, but as consumption necessitates slaughter, I don't know that it makes sense to consider the moral value of the latter without the former. I think I get what you're saying, though: there's nothing moral about the nutritional content of food (or the lack thereof).

I have to ask, though, do you think people genuinely ascribe a moral value to foods? If one has a salad for dinner and another person says "how good of you," I don't think it's meant as a moral judgment. It's praise for the wisdom and willpower of one who opts for a healthy meal when something less healthy might be more immediately satisfying. Similarly, if somebody eats McDonald's every day and I say that he shouldn't do that, I mean that he's making a bad choice and will suffer for it; I don't mean that he is an immoral person. There are other standards besides morality by which a choice can be judged. In this case, I think most people use standards of healthiness (real or perceived), not morality, to judge what is a good food or a bad food.

[truelove]

Yes, I do think people ascribe a moral judgment. "Good" has become synonymous with "healthiness", as it comes to food. And, frankly, good is a word absolutely loaded with moral implications. The attributes you mentioned, willpower and wisdom, are moral qualities.

See, you are seen as weak-willed if you 'give in' to the desire to eat something not deemed healthy by society. Gluttonous. Unable to control yourself. A danger, therefore, to yourself and others.

And that, right there, is moral judgment.

[shirou]

In this context, I wouldn't consider weak-willed to be a moral judgment, because I don't see how it endangers others.

I'm afraid I still don't see it, really. If I say "he's a good person," then sure, that sounds like a moral judgment. But if I say "she's a good actor" or "that's a good piano," I think it's pretty clear from context that I'm judging with different standards than morality. Likewise, if I say that a food is good, I'm probably judging by a standard of healthiness or taste, not a moral standard.

I hope I'm not coming across as argumentative; I'm just interested in your viewpoint, but I don't entirely understand it.